Adopting https://brightwomen.net/fi/singaporelaiset-naiset/ the my report on the youngsters regarding Llywelyn Fawr and you may Joanna while the solutions it received, We featured again through the genealogical users dedicated to Gwladus Ddu. While it is correct, just like the several genealogists highlight, you to on absence of chosen research for some reason, the fresh new identity of one’s mom regarding Gwladus Ddu need to are still ‘unknown’, I found no reason to change my personal conclusion one their own mom is actually Joanna and never Tangwystyl.
She leftover no hassle because of the Alexander II
One further resource about its people is the following conceptual throughout the ‘Kings and you can Queens regarding Britain’ a well-respected book, written by Oxford University Drive, webpage 106:
‘Llywelyn ab Iorwerth, b.1173, young man away from Iorwerth Drwyndwn (‘Flatnose’) and you can Marared, child off Madog ap Maredudd; acc. eastern Gwynedd 1195; married Joan, illegitimate child off King John, 1205; issue: Gruffudd (illegitimate), Dafydd, Gwenllian, Helen, Gwladus, Margaret, Susanna; died 11 April 1240; buried: Aberconwy.’
First, i would ike to shell out tribute in order to Sharon. Their unique research to have ‘HBD’, ‘Drops this new Shadow’ and you may ‘The fresh new Reckoning’, carried out until the regarding the web, are it really is outstanding. About everything you she’s written in you to trilogy stands romantic test today.
To show that it’s besides myself that believes so, let me quote that genealogist who’s a great fan regarding Sharon: “I am most keen on Sharon Kay Penman’s courses. While they aren’t strictly biographical, I believe hotter counting on her try to ‘fill in the fresh new blanks’ (considering the number of research she definitely set in her instructions), compared to in reality mentioning specific genealogical provide that we came round the in my own browse (I am aware we all come upon supplies this way). To help you those who have not even read her functions, I recommend it very highly, specifically if you need to get an end up being for just what lifetime are including 800 years back.”
After the inquiries presented by the Beth, Suzanne and you will Sandy particularly, We attempt researching the latest term off Joanna’s mommy (regarded hereafter, for ease of resource while the ‘Clemence’ perhaps not ‘Clementia’) by way of an event with the in order to-be-king John. Just after powering up of many blind alleys, generally as a consequence of seeking to reconcile the fresh new chronology of just one toward other, I’ve paid on which employs. Really don’t say that everything i wrote was definitive in any shape otherwise setting, as well as the the fact is we will likely not yes away from their own title.
(a) New illegitimate Joanna, daughter regarding “Clemence,” try undoubtedly born out of wedlock –– as is turned out of the Honorius III’s decree saying her legitimate for the April 1226, regardless if in the place of bias towards the king otherwise field of England (i.e., providing their particular no-claim to that throne). Brand new decree, which has been transcribed regarding the new, unpublished Register from Honorius III (Reg. Vat. thirteen, fol. 122 ), states inter alia you to definitely “Johannes Rex anglie solutus te genuerit de soluta,” and this, I am advised, translates as “King John out of England, whenever single , fathered your from the a single lady.”
This task turned out to be significantly more advanced than simply I would possess think possible!
It means Joanna have already been born no afterwards than 1189 whenever John partnered Isabella out of Gloucester. Her mom, “Clemence” try probably French otherwise Norman, since proof on the patent goes off John’s reign implies that Joan are delivered off Normandy so you’re able to The united kingdomt in the December 1203, to arrange for marriage to help you Llywelyn ab Iorwerth (get a hold of less than). Joanna died within the Feb 1237.
(b) John’s genuine child Joan, from the Isabella out of Angouleme (hitched so you can John inside 1200 within many years several!), was born in the Gloucester with the twenty two July 1210 (understand the Tewkesbury Annals throughout the Moves Show, vol. thirty six.i, p. 59; the Worcester Annals, ibid., vol. thirty six.iv, p. 399; while the Rotuli Litterarum Patencium getting John’s Leadership, pp. 124, 143). Here is the Joan whom next married Alexander II regarding Scotland and she passed away in 1238, particular months just after Joanna (this could be the cause of some of the confusion apparent involving the a few female).